Doctor Herpes

Question:

03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years?

About 13 years ago I was put on Prozac. After the initial side effects had worn off I awake one day and my anxiety was *gone*, it was the weirdest experience, I meean it was *gone*, totally nothing left, not even the vestige of a memory…. I was elated, I started to do many things I had found very hard before and I had no problem at all doing them. I made many plans. This lasted three weeks and then I started to feel low anxiety at some point and the next day everything was as it used to be. I never understood the implications but obviously it *is* possible to get rid of all (pathological) anxiety; unfortunately I never found out what the trick was and how to repeat it. The pdoc I saw at the time chalked it down to placebo effect of Prozac but I’m not so sure about that. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years?

The length of time that it takes to play a round of golf. It totally relaxes me. — Ron P Member of the invisible generation — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

About 13 years ago I was put on Prozac. After the initial side effects had worn off I awake one day and my anxiety was *gone*, it was the weirdest experience, I meean it was *gone*, totally nothing left, not even the vestige of a memory …. I was *elated*,

Endorphins kick in? Then everything is possible. The first time I went on Zoloft, not only did my depression go away, but I was slightly elated. I asked my psych if I was hypomanic, but he said "no". I started to do many things I had found very hard before and I had no problem at all doing them. I made many plans. This lasted three weeks and then I started to feel low anxiety at some point and the next day everything was as it used to be. I never understood the implications but obviously it *is* possible to get rid of all (pathological) anxiety; unfortunately I never found out what the trick was and how to repeat it. The pdoc I saw at the time chalked it down to placebo effect of Prozac but I’m not so sure about that.

I read that some people have a withdrawal syndrome when their placebos are stopped. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years?

I think I’ve always had some underlying anxiety, even if very slight. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I read that some people have a withdrawal syndrome when their placebos are stopped. Chip

Philip in himself is a placebo LOLOLOLOL I am that kinda person that laughs about her own jokes Kiss an ya nose — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Chip schreef: About 13 years ago I was put on Prozac. After the initial side effects had worn off I awake one day and my anxiety was *gone*, it was the weirdest experience, I meean it was *gone*, totally nothing left, not even the vestige of a memory …. I was *elated*, Endorphins kick in? Then everything is possible. The first time I went on Zoloft, not only did my depression go away, but I was slightly elated. I asked my psych if I was hypomanic, but he said "no".

I think I used the wrong word. I was *not* euphoric in any way. just happy that after three decaded or so my anxiety seemed to have disappeared. I felt *normal*. I started to do many things I had found very hard before and I had no problem at all doing them. I made many plans. This lasted three weeks and then I started to feel low anxiety at some point and the next day everything was as it used to be. I never understood the implications but obviously it *is* possible to get rid of all (pathological) anxiety; unfortunately I never found out what the trick was and how to repeat it. The pdoc I saw at the time chalked it down to placebo effect of Prozac but I’m not so sure about that. I read that some people have a withdrawal syndrome when their placebos are stopped.

Sure. The mind is capable of great things. But even if it was a placebo effect there is no reason why it couldn’t have lasted forever IMO. Placebo can be a serious positive effect. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Anna schreef: Most infections go away without any treatment. Chip Not Philip hahahahahahahahaha

Please make up your tiny mind. Am I: – a placebo? – an infection? I can’t be both at the sanme time. Ah….Miss Anna…. just so we don’t get ourselves in trouble with newbies and moderators: luv’ ya, baby. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Most infections go away without any treatment. Chip

Not Philip hahahahahahahahaha — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Philip in himself is a placebo LOLOLOLOL You mean he has side effects?  :)

Boy oh boy don’t even begin to ask I am that kinda person that laughs about her own jokes Oh?  :)

Yes ! I laugh at mine! Chip

Alrighty hahahahaha — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think there is a difference. An infection is clearly a purely *physical* thing. I don’t think so. There’s a complex interplay between the mind/brain and the rest of the body. Physical illness affects how one thinks/feels. And how one thinks/feels affects the body. Some people "give up" and get sick and die. Others have hope or faith and get better.

Brain Behav Immun. 2007 Jan;21(1):34-44. Physiology of psychoneuroimmunology: a personal view. Besedovsky HO, Rey AD.  Department of Immunophysiology, Institute of Physiology and Pathophysiology, Deutschhausstrasse 2, 35037 Marburg, Germany. This article offers a personal view on how the concept of the existence of a network of immune-neuro-endocrine interactions has evolved in the last 30 years. The main topic addressed is the relevance of the exchange of signals between the immune, endocrine and nervous systems for immunoregulation and brain functions. Particular emphasis is given to circuits involving immune cell products, the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis and the sympathetic nervous system. *The operation of these circuits can affect immune functions and the course of inflammatory, autoimmune and *infectious diseases*. We also discuss increasing evidence that brain-born cytokines play an important role in brain physiology and in the integration of the immune-neuro-endocrine network. PMID: 17157762 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Psychother Psychosom. 1997;66(1):3-26. Psychological stress, neuroimmunomodulation, and susceptibility to infectious diseases in animals and man: a review. Biondi M, Zannino LG.  III Clinica Psichiatrica, University of Rome, La Sapienza, Italy. This article reviews research on the role of psychological stress, personality, social support and other psychosocial factors in bacterial, viral and parasitic infections. After 100 years of research on man and animals, psychological stress is considered as a potential cofactor in the pathogenesis of infectious disease. Psychological stress seems able to alter the susceptibility of animals and man to infectious agents, influencing the onset, course and outcome of certain infectious pathologies. Many experiments have identified in neuroimmunomodulation the principal mediator of the alterations associated with conditions of stress. The development of psychoneuroimmunology has fostered in-depth study of the complex relationship between psychosocial factors, the central nervous system, the immune system and infectious disease. Although antimicrobial drugs have certainly remained the basis of all anti-infective therapy, this type of study has already led some authors to propose and experiment protocols of psychological intervention or psychoimmunotherapy in pathologies such as tuberculosis, or herpes simplex virus or human immunodeficiency virus infections. The psychoneuroimmunological approach to infectious diseases will probably grow in importance in the future not only in the setting of research in psychosomatic medicine but also in that of clinical microbiology. PMID: 8996711 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chip schreef: But even if it was a placebo effect *there is no reason why it couldn’t have lasted forever IMO*. That’s an interesting thought. How bout if you were treating, say, an infection with a placebo, and after the first few days it became obvious to you the infection wasn’t improving? And we’ll assume in this case you’re convinced the pill you’re taking will make the infection go away. Cause it always has in the past. I think there is a difference. An infection is clearly a purely *physical* thing.

I don’t think so. There’s a complex interplay between the mind/brain and the rest of the body. Physical illness affects how one thinks/feels. And how one thinks/feels affects the body. Some people "give up" and get sick and die. Others have hope or faith and get better.  I don’t think PD (or depression, for that matter) is. There is a definite psychological aspect to it

And there are definite physical/physiological aspects to anxiety and depression. Both affect cognition, emotions, physiological reactions, and behavior. and that’s why CBT’s results are as good as results with medication.

Some studies have shown that. I don’t know if it’s true. Some studies have shown the combo of CBT with meds is better than either alone. An infection is *measurable* while PD/anxiety/depression sort of slips through your fingers like sand.

There are scales (like the Hamilton and Beck) that measure anxiety and depression. That makes it much more volatile and hence more susceptible to suggestion = placebo. Now that we’re at it there is no scientific reason to state that our feelings are *caused* by our thoughts

I thought the consensus was that thoughts lead to feelings, and that feelings lead to thoughts, but that thoughts are something we can control. Therefore the emphasis on controlling/changing thoughts in CBT and REBT. but this axioma no.1 of both REBT and CBT often works (even Ellis himself has modified his earlier stance over the years admitting that the relationship between thoughts and feelings isn’t necessarily as simple as the theory says, the interaction between them is more subtle and fluid than sinmple Skinnerian stimulus-response or cause — affect). One might well think of CBT as placebo as well as its main principle is really conjecture and based on "philosophy" rather than empirical scientific data about the brain. But the bottom line is IMO: *If it works, it works*.

My understanding is that numerous studies have shown CBT to be effective for a number of different physical and emotional conditions because there were control arms in the studies. With an infection things are much more defined, I believe, which iks why placebo will not cure it (although I don’t want to exclude this completely;

Most infections go away without any treatment. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Chip schreef: Philip in himself is a placebo LOLOLOLOL You mean he has side effects?  :) I am that kinda person that laughs about her own jokes Oh?  :) I laugh at mine! Chip

I never laugh. I’m always serious. P. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Chip schreef: But even if it was a placebo effect *there is no reason why it couldn’t have lasted forever IMO*. That’s an interesting thought. How bout if you were treating, say, an infection with a placebo, and after the first few days it became obvious to you the infection wasn’t improving? And we’ll assume in this case you’re convinced the pill you’re taking will make the infection go away. Cause it always has in the past.

I think there is a difference. An infection is clearly a purely *physical* thing. I don’t think PD (or depression, for that matter) is. There is a definite psychological aspect to it and that’s why CBT’s results are as good as results with medication. An infection is *measurable* while PD/anxiety/depression sort of slips through your fingers like sand. That makes it much more volatile and hence more susceptible to suggestion = placebo. Now that we’re at it there is no scientific reason to state that our feelings are *caused* by our thoughts but this axioma no.1 of both REBT and CBT often works (even Ellis himself has modified his earlier stance over the years admitting that the relationship between thoughts and feelings isn’t necessarily as simple as the theory says, the interaction between them is more subtle and fluid than sinmple Skinnerian stimulus-response or cause — affect). One might well think of CBT as placebo as well as its main principle is really conjecture and based on "philosophy" rather than empirical scientific data about the brain. But the bottom line is IMO: *If it works, it works*. With an infection things are much more defined, I believe, which iks why placebo will not cure it (although I don’t want to exclude this completely; "There is more in heaven and earth….") Philip Chip

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think I’ve always had some underlying anxiety, even if very slight. Chip I often wondered about that. I know I had anxious moments or episodes from very early childhood on but not like a disorder, more like *incidents* which were few and far between and I never connected them.

As a child I had a restless uncomfortable feeling and didn’t know what it was do to. Or even if it was abnormal. In retrospect it was anxiety. But today when I think about things I did before PD I cannot imagine anymore how it felt to not be anxious at all (not even *background anxiety* which now is constant and also manageable but it *is* there all the time). I just can’t imagine having hitch-hiked through Europe on my own without anxiety which I definitely did.

I can’t imagine taking all those bus trips with the Cal band to other states to play at football games. But I did. In gloomy moments I think that’s *sad*.

I know what you mean. At least I’m not having out of the blue panic attacks several times a day. As I used to many years ago. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Philip in himself is a placebo LOLOLOLOL

You mean he has side effects?  :) I am that kinda person that laughs about her own jokes

Oh?  :) I laugh at mine! Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

The first time I went on Zoloft, not only did my depression go away, but I was slightly elated. I asked my psych if I was hypomanic, but he said "no". I think I was a little manic or something when I first started Nortriptyline.

That could have been a substance-induced mania. One can’t make a diagnosis of bipolar disorder if the mania was caused by a substance. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

…. I was *elated*, Endorphins kick in? Then everything is possible. The first time I went on Zoloft, not only did my depression go away, but I was slightly elated. I asked my psych if I was hypomanic, but he said "no". I think I used the wrong word. I was *not* euphoric in any way. just happy that after three decaded or so my anxiety seemed to have disappeared. I felt *normal*.

Gotcha. I read that some people have a withdrawal syndrome when their placebos are stopped. Sure. The mind is capable of great things. But even if it was a placebo effect *there is no reason why it couldn’t have lasted forever IMO*.

That’s an interesting thought. How bout if you were treating, say, an infection with a placebo, and after the first few days it became obvious to you the infection wasn’t improving? And we’ll assume in this case you’re convinced the pill you’re taking will make the infection go away. Cause it always has in the past. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

About 13 years ago I was put on Prozac. After the initial side effects had worn off I awake one day and my anxiety was *gone*, it was the weirdest experience, I meean it was *gone*, totally nothing left, not even the vestige of a memory …. I was *elated*, Endorphins kick in? Then everything is possible. The first time I went on Zoloft, not only did my depression go away, but I was slightly elated. I asked my psych if I was hypomanic, but he said "no".

I think I was a little manic or something when I first started Nortriptyline.  That is actually why the one Dr. wouldn’t let me try it since I had a false diagnosis of Bi-Polar and he said it may send me off on a manic spree.  Damn I felt great for a couple days! Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years? I think it was almost 2 days.  I was very close to suicide and like magic I had no anxiety, none whatsoever!  I was in a state of euphoria, the end was very near so I stopped caring about everything that would have given me anxiety. I don’t recommend it as a good way to handle anxiety/panic. Tony Definitely not, but you must have felt great at the time!  I can’t imagine feeling so free.

Euphoric isn’t a strong enough word to describe how wonderful I felt. If I ever feel that way again I hope it’s due to a different situation! Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Chip schreef: 03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years? I think I’ve always had some underlying anxiety, even if very slight. Chip

I often wondered about that. I know I had anxious moments or episodes from very early childhood on but not like a disorder, more like *incidents* which were few and far between and I never connected them. But today when I think about things I did before PD I cannot imagine anymore how it felt to not be anxious at all (not even *background anxiety* which now is constant and also manageable but it *is* there all the time). I just can’t imagine having hitch-hiked through Europe on my own without anxiety which I definitely did. In gloomy moments I think that’s *sad*. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Id have to say it’s always there.  It might be underlying but it has me on guard at most times. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years? Jackie ~*~My halo is temporarily out of order~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ   What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years?

I think it was almost 2 days.  I was very close to suicide and like magic I had no anxiety, none whatsoever!  I was in a state of euphoria, the end was very near so I stopped caring about everything that would have given me anxiety. I don’t recommend it as a good way to handle anxiety/panic. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years? Jackie ~*~My halo is temporarily out of order~*~

2 weeks, maybe? kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years? I think it was almost 2 days.  I was very close to suicide and like magic I had no anxiety, none whatsoever!  I was in a state of euphoria, the end was very near so I stopped caring about everything that would have given me anxiety. I don’t recommend it as a good way to handle anxiety/panic. Tony

Definitely not, but you must have felt great at the time!  I can’t imagine feeling so free. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

03/01/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Russ   What was the longest stretch of time you have gone without anxiety/ panic symptoms? minutes, days, months, years? Jackie ~*~My halo is temporarily out of order~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response: